Abram Leyzorek

October 9, 2018

Profile of an Atypical Prepper

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            When I asked Mr. Leyzorek if he would call himself a prepper, the sixty-two-year-old man grinned at me from behind his full, black beard streaked with white and replied somewhat elusively that, although he would not mind being called so, he would not introduce himself as such (Leyzorek, sec. 1). Slightly discouraged since I had set out to interview a prepper, I rephrased the question to be sure if I was interviewing the right person: I asked if he considers himself part of the prepper subculture (Leyzorek, sec. 1). He supposed he would, but I was still confused about why he answered with such trepidation. As learned later, Mr. Leyzorek is not an average prepper; he only rather incidentally fell into this category due to his innate personality traits. These led him from the suburban setting of his youth to his current West Virginia residence surrounded at least a mile in every direction by peaceful forest where he enjoys a life of simple self-sufficiency without any television or utilities (Leyzorek, sec. 10). As a result, his attitude towards being prepared differs from his prepper peers in one essential respect: he has always viewed preparedness, a defining characteristic of his father, as an essential part of being grown up, and not as merely a means to preserve one’s opulent lifestyle (Leyzorek, sec. 3, sec. 17). As Mr. Leyzorek explains, many preppers come to realize later in life that modern living is unsustainable and faced with many potential pitfalls and threats (Leyzorek, sec. 17). To combat this, they stock generators, MREs, and build bomb shelters so they will be able to preserve as much as possible their current living standards in the event of some sort of social collapse resulting in the halt of external supply lines for food, water, and electricity (Leyzorek, sec. 17). But for Mr. Leyzorek, any benefits that conveniences like television, utilities, and electric heat may offer do not outweigh their costs (Leyzorek, sec. 14). Even if one could live with a modern lifestyle sustainably, Mr. Leyzorek would still be living in the woods off the grid simply because he loves it.

           

            Mr. Leyzorek was born an only child near Cleveland, Ohio, and lived there until he was about five years old (Leyzorek, sec. 12). During this time, he lived with a television, electric heating, running water, and other modern conveniences. However, he never took these for granted because he experienced many blackouts when, of course, none of these things could function. But rather than worry when these occurred, he actually enjoyed them and liked having candles in the house. He read about all kinds of disasters and social collapses as he rapaciously read science fiction stories. He never espoused the idea that any kind of comfortable living was guaranteed. (Leyzorek, sec. 5). His father was a big influence on him, as well, as a responsible adult who seemed to be prepared for all adverse situations, such as clogged drains, flat tires, or splinters (Leyzorek, sec. 3).

           

           Then, he moved with his father and mother to Long Island in New York State, where he lived for seven years, but he finished growing up in Central New Jersey (Leyzorek, sec. 12). This is where he developed his long-standing interest in machining, something he would naturally be attracted to as a necessity for self-sufficiency. He helped his father build a machine shop in the basement of his home in New Jersey when he was a teenager. He learned to use the various tools, such as drill presses, lathes, and arbor presses, as they slowly accumulated them. Here, he also began working for money for the first time. He started out weeding gardens and then transitioned to fixing bicycles. He got his first real job working for a university after he moved out of his parents’ house and bought a small farm. At the university, he conducted explosives research and did machine work of various kinds. At the same time, he also learned and applied carpentry, plumbing, and wiring, all essential skills for self-sufficiency. (Leyzorek, sec. 11).

           

            Up until the point when Mr. Leyzorek moved out of his parents’ house, everything was provided for him. But when he became independent, he had to provide everything he wanted for himself. He soon realized that the oil-fired heating in his house was too expensive, so he replaced it with a wood stove. When the electric pump on his well wore out he not only repaired it, but also installed an additional hand-operated pump to use in case he lost access to electricity. (Leyzorek, sec. 14). These factors slowly brought him towards greater self-sufficiency even though this was not his main focus at the time (Leyzorek, sec. 17). While he lived in New Jersey, he always had access to electricity to power his machine shop, but soon he absconded even from that (Leyzorek, sec. 14).

 

            He wasn’t satisfied with the small plot of land he had in New Jersey, so he sold it and moved to West Virginia, where he knew he could find cheap land prices, in 1989 when he was thirty-three. He began planning the move two years before that and did extensive research using maps and census data to locate the parts of the country with the lowest population density and the greatest distance from population centers, interstate highways, and potential military targets while still having good rainfall and a temperate climate. After just two weeks of travelling, he found the perfect piece of property for a cheap price. (Leyzorek, sec. 12). It was a mile away from the nearest neighbor and mostly wooded, but it had no house or electric lines or well. He asked the power company what they would charge to put in electric lines which was more than he wanted to pay. He was satisfied with the power provided by his generator to run his machinery and didn’t mind not having electric lights. As he said, he likes getting up at first light and going to bed with the sun (14). He used candles or kerosene lamps if he ever needed a little light after dark, but these were expensive. That was the impetus that drove him to build a large solar power system capable of running computers, a refrigerator, and electric lights. All of these things he was perfectly happy without, but the latter was convenient to have in the case of an emergency in the middle of the night. (Leyzorek, sec. 14). And he never owned a computer until he moved to West Virginia, but there he delved into local political issues, some of which involved court cases. These required him to do large amounts of research and writing, which he did at the local library. This lead him to realize how useful computers can be, so he acquired some of his own in 2007. (Leyzorek, sec. 13).

 

            An average day for Mr. Leyzorek begins with milking his goats and feeding his chickens. After that, he usually has a bowl of homemade granola with homemade goat-milk yogurt for breakfast. Next, if it is winter time he might fetch a bale of hay for the cows or plow the snow off the driveway, or if It summer time he might spend hours planting or weeding his garden. Regardless of the season, he almost always has flat tires to fix or a piece of machinery to repair. When the whether is favorable for construction, he works on expanding his house, which began as a small trailer. He often skips lunch to continue working on projects. If he has free time, he spends it readings books, magazines or on the computer educating himself or searching for useful items. His wife, a family physician, will have supper ready before dark if she is not working on a given day, but often he will have to prepare food for his six children.

 

            His wife is very supportive of his sustainable lifestyle and his children participate in general household and farm upkeep by doing tasks such as sweeping floors and gathering kindling and firewood. He would like to teach them all how to fix tires and how to weld and everything he knows so that they can live securely anywhere in the world. He hopes that they will want to learn all of these things but knows that it is not up to him to direct their lives. Some of them already show promising signs of preparedness such as carrying pocketknives, tape measures, and tinder bags. (Leyzorek, sec. 16).

 

            Mr. Leyzorek has come a long way from suburban roots to the level of preparedness and self-sufficiency that he enjoys today (Leyzorek, sec.10, sec. 12, sec. 17). He moved several times throughout his life, beginning in Ohio and ending up in West Virginia (Leyzorek, sec. 12). When he became independent, he was faced with the question of whether or not all of the expensive conveniences that he had grown up with were worth their cost. He naturally decided in the negative and incrementally absconded from almost all of them, the final step being his stepping off the power grid (Leyzorek, sec. 14). His desire to learn how things are made and their provenance lead him to become a machinist, welder, carpenter, plumber, engineer, and farmer (Leyzorek, sec. 10, sec. 11). All of these occupations allowed him to work with his hands, which he enjoyed very much, and allowed him to be completely independent of professionals on whom the lives and well being of most people today depend. He came to this point purely because he valued peace, simplicity, and independence more than convenience (Leyzorek, sec. 14). Even though he enjoys the security brought by his lifestyle, he would not recommend becoming a prepper to anyone else, but, rather, he would urge them to “ponder and understand what their own values are, what’s really important to them, what makes them happy, what kind of things are the ingredients of a good life, so that they’re not buying stuff or spending their time on stuff that really has no value to them” (Leyzorek sec. 9, sec. 15).

 

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Works Cited

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Leyzorek, John. Personal interview. 10 October 2018.

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Interview Transcript

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1. AJL: So, would you call yourself a prepper?

Leyzorek: I don’t mind being called that, but that’s probably not how I would introduce myself.

AJL: Well, how would you introduce yourself?

Leyzorek: Well, by name, by that I live off the grid, that I have a family, that I’m an engineer.

AJL: Would you say you belong to the subculture of preppers?

Leyzorek: I suppose.

   

   2. AJL: When did you become a prepper?

Leyzorek: Well, as I said in response to some written questions, from when I was a little child I always just grew up thinking that is was the responsibility of everybody to be prepared for things that might happen. My Daddy always carried a pocket knife, he was always ready to take out splinters, fix his car and change tires, and unclog the drain. And the idea of…We had, I guess we had candles in the house in case the electricity went out. It never occurred to me to not to think that I should be prepared for things not to go as I expect them to. So, being a prepper in the modern sense, perhaps, means that you are preparing for a collapse of society that you expect will take place. I suppose the extreme end of the continuum but being prepared is just a part of the way one ought to live, it’s called being responsible, being able to take care of your responsibilities regardless of what happens around you.

 

   3. AJL: Your father was a big influence on your attitude on preparedness?

Leyzorek: Yeah, just because he always seemed to be able to deal with any circumstance, I just thought that was the way you were supposed to be like when you grew up.

 

   4. AJL: In the modern sense of the word prepper, do you know anything about their history?

Leyzorek: Not really, I know the word has become very popular in the last, well… I guess… Well, back when I was, in the years not to long before I was born when I was very small, we were still in the throes of the cold War with Russia and communist China. A lot of people built bomb shelters because they thought it was not unlikely that there would be a nuclear war and they wanted to survive in the bomb shelters, uh.. That fear dissipated with negotiation and with the fall of the Soviet Union in the late 80s. I guess the next big thing that people got excited about was Y2K, the idea that the computers were going to stop because they weren’t going to be able to roll the data over. I think the awareness of Islamic terrorism wasn’t very high until a long time after that. I guess in the sixties, I want to say maybe 1968, there was a big black out in the summertime when everyone was running their air conditioner and close to the eastern half of the country the electricity went out for a few hours. People always got excited about those events and people perhaps decided to be better prepared for the next time, and most people said “oh this probably won’t happen again,” until it did. I don’t really know why prepping has become such a culturally distinct and noticeable thing. Of course, it’s a big sales opportunity for whoever wants to sell generators and MREs and all kinds of stuff that people might think they want to buy so that they would be prepared. So, there is a commercial motive in ginning up this kind of worry that makes people want to become preppers.

 

   5. AJL: Are you worried about some catastrophe in the future?

Leyzorek: Well, I don’t think I really worry about it. I want to be prepared for it. I think that there are probably other more immediate things that I’m more worried about, but it is a distinct possibility. I don’t think it’s prudent to discount it.

AJL: When did you become aware that such a catastrophe was possible?

Leyzorek: That’s a good question. Well, I was a little kid when there were black outs. I guess as a little kid I didn’t really think about… Actually, as a little kid I liked them, I liked having candles in the house, it didn’t bother me that the electricity was out. Of course, it might have bothered me if it had happed in the winter and the heat in the house that I lived in was dependent upon electricity. Little kids find things like that exciting as long as they’re not actually freezing or starving. So, what’s the question again?

AJL: When did you become aware that some sort of social collapse was possible?

Leyzorek: Well, I’ve probably always been aware of that, because if you look at history its happen over and over again in history to different cultures. It’s a favorite subject of science fiction stories and I was a big science fiction reader as a kid. I never thought, I never had the idea that comfortable, wealthy, safe society was just a given in the world, because it isn’t.

AJL: Do you think that the prevailing view in America today?

Leyzorek: I think the prevailing view in America is what’s on TV and what’s for dinner.

AJl: Do you think that the general populace is cognizant of the potential for their modern living standards to one day collapse?

Leyzorek: Do I think the majority of people think that’s a relative possibility? I don’t think the majority of people think about it at all. I think if you pointedly asked the question, I don’t really have any reason to think this, but if you pointedly ask them this question, perhaps, probably half the people would say yes, it’s possible, and half the people would say nah, it’ll never happen. Maybe more than half the people would say it’s possible, it depends on how you defined it, but even within the fraction of people that would agree if you cornered them that it was possible, the vast majority of them would stop thinking about after you stopped questioning them they’d go back to business as usual, because people don’t like to think about things that are uncomfortable.

AJl: How likely do you think it is to occur?

Leyzorek: I think the chance is 100% that it will happen in the next thousand years, and that also depends on what you mean by “it.” In its current shape, society’s unsustainable for lots of reasons, thermodynamic, and ecological, and cultural, and moral, and social, and demographic, but people have been saying that forever, and people are very clever, and they don’t want things to fall apart, and a lot of people work diligently to hold them together. So, is it going to happen eventually, whatever you call it? Sure, it’s very hard to tell. It depends on the nature of the threat and the precipitating conditions; society is at the same time resilient and fragile, it depends on how you look at it.

 

   6. AJL: What do you think is the current biggest threat to society?

Leyzorek: Moral decay.

AJL: What do you think that is?

Leyzorek: Well, an important element of morality is to be able to open your eyes and confront the truth and see the world as it really is, rather than as you would like it to be. Also, things like keeping promises and respecting other people, and obeying, or at least acknowledging, laws, not just human laws. All those things are important aspects of morality, and all of these things, if  you do the, make you and your society stronger and more resilient and more bale to recover from threats and disruptions and inconveniences and the less diligent and the aware and the less honorable you are, the less successfully you’ll be able to perceive and confront inconvenient realities and the less successfully you’ll be able to cooperate with other people to overcome difficulties. The morel likely you’ll be to create some for yourself.

AJL: What do think is causing moral decay.

Leyzorek: Ease and comfort and wealth; it’s a historical cycle. That’s the proximate cause, the ultimate cause is the fallen nature of man. People are only as good as they have to be.

 

   7. AJL: How do you think preppers are viewed by the general populace?

Leyzorek: I don’t really know what the general populace thinks. I’m sure that some people think that you’d be nuts to spend time on being prepared when you could be buying fashionable clothing and dancing and watching TV instead. Some people probably look up to them, some people envy them, some people don’t think about them at all, some people probably resent them, and think that they are evil hoarders and they should be paying all their extra money in taxes so that the government can take care of everybody. If TV’s any indicating of how the general public view things, I gather there was a show which attempted to portray preppers as wackos. So, whether that’s the preconception or whether they were taught by it, I don’t know, but any time a normal human being sees someone else doing something that’s difficult or arduous, they want to construct for themselves reasons why they shouldn’t have to do it themselves. So, one is to say that anybody who does that’s got to be crazy.

 

   8. AJL: Do know anybody else who is a Prepper?

Leyzorek: I guess. Well, I know a few people who I think probably would be described that way. Not really, of course this is not a part of the world with enough population density to know a large number of any given subset of the population.

 

   9. AJL: How much time and energy do you spend to be prepared?

Leyzorek: Well, I don’t live to different lives and spend x percentage of my life sitting in an office and shopping at the grocery store, and then y percentage digging gun emplacements and burying MREs. It’s hard to apportion it. I’ve constructed my life over the last many years so that we can rely on what we have here, instead of, where we live here isn’t very subject to disruption by what goes on outside. So, almost everything that I do has something to do with being prepared; If I make a tool instead of buying one, or if I save a bent nail instead of throwing it away, or if I tend the garden or milk the goats or collect firewood. It’s part of being prepared, but it’s also just daily life.

 

   10. AJL: What is your home like?

Leyzorek: Well, we live in a house that I’m very slowly building. We’re a mile from the nearest road. We don’t have any utilities to the house except the telephone. We have a solar power system that provides enough electricity to run a couple of refrigerators and computers and lights in the house. We have a spring that provides our water, it’s above the house so gravity feeds it to the house under adequate pressure. We raise a small garden. We heat the house with wood. We’re mostly surrounded by woods. We have chickens and goats and cows, which we sometimes eat. I have a workshop where I can make most anything, which is what I’ve done for a living for a number of years. My wife’s a doctor which would be very handy if there were no medical care available from anywhere else.

 

   11. AJL: What was your first occupation?

Leyzorek: I weeded people’s gardens.

AJL: And then what?

Leyzorek: I fixed bicycles.

AJL: And then what?

Leyzorek; I did plumbing and wiring and carpentry and construction.

AJL: And then you became a machinist?

Leyzorek: Well, I was learning about machining during that period, I guess. And I worked in a laboratory doing explosive research and ran a little machine shop there for them and did machine work, and I was employed for a while setting up a laboratory in a machine shop for a university. And then, if you’re asking about machining, then I set up my own machine shop. Well, my father had a little, sort of a machine shop in the basement which was where I learned a lot of the stuff. We had a lathe, and a drill press, and woodworking tools, and an electronics bench. He and I bought a milling machine as a teenager and set that up, and an arbor press and a drilling machine. So, he had a little machine shop in his basement by the time I moved out of his house. And I set up on my own in my place.

 

   12. AJL: Where were you born?

Leyzorek: Near Cleveland, Ohio.

AJL: And when did you move?

Leyzorek: I lived there ‘til I was five. I lived in New York State on long Island until I was twelve. I lived in central New Jersey for the rest of my growing up, and that’s where I bought my first farm. And I lived there ‘til some time in 1989, when I guess I was 33, and came to West Virginia.

AJL: Why did you move to West Virginia?

Leyzorek: So that I could afford to have more land and be farther away from too many people and too many cars and too much taxes and too many rules and regulations.

AJL: How did you find out that West Virginia could provide all of those things?

Leyzorek: Well, most people know that West Virginia is lightly populated and rural and economically depressed. And those were things I was looking for. And I did a bunch of research with maps and census information. In 1987 when I was planning my move, looking for a place with very low population density and good rainfall and moderate climate and remote from population centers and interstate highways and potential military targets. There were places that looked like they would fit the bill in Ohio and North Carolina and Kentucky and Western Pennsylvania.

AJL: Did you visit any of these places before deciding to move to West Virginia

Leyzorek: yes, well I looked in… I think all the looking I really had time for was in West Virginia and North Carolina, because I didn’t have very much time to search. I guess if I had not found a place I liked I would have made more time to continue the search, but I found a beautiful piece of property for a cheap price in my first two weeks of travelling, and I guess that’s because I did a lot of homework beforehand and I knew what parts of the country to look in. It worked out well. My search protocol worked.

 

   13. AJL: When did you first get a computer?

Leyzorek: Probably 2007.

AJL: Why’d you not have a computer prior to that?

Leyzorek: Well, I didn’t have electricity here to run one. I became aware of the use of the internet and computer for word processing, I guess, over five or ten years before that doing… I guess you could call it political and legal stuff; I got involved in local political issues that involved some court cases. I needed to do a lot of research, needed to do a lot of writing and I learned to use the computer as a word processor and to use the internet thanks to some knowledgeable and very patient and helpful librarians. So, I found it so useful that I wanted to have one at home. And that actually was my impetus to build… well I had had very, very small solar power system which provided a few lights and power to run a radio before, but I did a major upgrade to the solar power system in 2008, I guess, I could run a computer and a refrigerator, which I was very happy without.

 

   14. AJL: So why did you decide to abscond from utilities?

Leyzorek: Well, I bought my own house 1978 and it had an electric… it was out in the country so it had its own well and an electric pump and oil fired hot water heat and electric lights, and all that stuff, and I didn’t think a lot about that, except the heating the place with oil costs a lot of money, so I didn’t like that, so I replaced that with a would stove. And eventually in the natural course of things, the well pump malfunctioned, and so I repaired that but when I repaired that I added a hand pump to the well so that if the electric pump crapped out again, I would not be without water. I certainly used electricity to run my shop as well as lights in my shop and a refrigerator all the while I lived there. When I came here to west Virginia, the property I bought is a mile from the road and there was no house up here and no electric lines up here, and  I didn’t come here with the intent to be off the grid, but when I asked the power company what they would charge to put the power in, it was more than what I wanted to pay. It just… having electricity just wasn’t important to me. I had a generator to run machinery at the shop so I could make a living. But, I like to get up when it gets light and go to bed when it gets dark. If I need a little bit of light I enjoyed the candles and the kerosene lamps. The biggest problem I have with candles and kerosene lamps is they’re expensive to run, so… The solar power system, which was very expensive to build, the ongoing cost is very low. It’s also nice to have to have bright light available at the flip of a switch for some kind of emergency in the middle of the night. It was, I guess it was, the decision to be off the grid was kind of a small step at the end of long, slow progression towards being more and more independent and realizing that the modern conveniences really didn’t mean very much to me.

AJL: Why not?

Leyzorek: I don’t know, why should they? If somebody enjoys living in a hose where things hum all the time, let them explain that. I like things quiet, I like things simple. I don’t like to depend on a lot of stuff that’s going to break down or cost money; any time I have to spend making money is time I can’t spend doing something useful or interesting. Convenient stuff costs a lot of money generally. The less of that crap I pay for, the more time I have to walk around in the woods or lie down in the grass, pet a cat, sing a song.

 

   15. AJL: Would you recommend to anyone else that they should get off the grid?

Leyzorek: No, I would recommend to anybody to ponder and understand what their own values are, what’s really important to them, what makes them happy, what kind of things are the ingredients of a good life, so that they’re not buying stuff or spending their time on stuff that really has no value to them. I would urge anybody to think about that kind of stuff, but I don’t think I would urge a particular decision on people, not if I… well it’s not for me to tell other people how to live as long as their way of life doesn’t threaten me, which, of course, it does to some extent. I don’t like to try to change anybody’s mind.

 

   16. AJL: So, do you have a family?

Leyzorek: I do. I’m richly blessed to have a family.

AJL: What do they think of your attitude on preparedness?

Leyzorek: Well, as far as the kids go, I don’t really know what they think about it. They’re part of what goes on here. They participate in almost all of the work in keeping up the place. Some of them look like they like the idea of being prepared, because they carry knives and fire making stuff and things around. I think a couple of them certainly like that idea, they’ve made that part of who they are. My wife likes the idea of being prepared, except she has her own way of doing that. She focuses on different things than I do, and she has much less of a sense of urgency about the possible imminence of difficulties than I do, but she is supportive. She thinks that whatever “it” is, if there is any “it” coming, it won’t happen ‘til we’re ready for it.

AJL: Would you like your kids to follow your lifestyle?

Leyzorek: Well that’s a choice that feel I should not be making for them. I love my children, so I want them to be secure. I think the only way to be secure is to be prepared to create your own security wherever in the world you are, so I surely worry on their behalf if they relied on just in time pizza delivery and electric heat. I guess I would worry that if anything happened to disrupt that they would be in trouble. So, to that extend I want them to be prepared, but I’m not about to tell them how to live their lives, I guess because I don’t think that would be persuasive.

 

   17. AJL: Could talk a little more about the process in your life that lead you to your current lifestyle?

Leyzorek: Well, I think I’ve covered a lot of it. I started out thinking about how just being a grown up meant being prepared for what might happen. And then when I was on my own, I got away from what you might call the modern suburban assumptions, because things were no longer just provided for me. I had to make a decision to provide or not. I think since I grew up in a house with a television set, it was a normal part of living in a house to have one. But then I moved out to live on my own so I was faced with the question of did I want to buy one. I said “no!,” this is not worth money to me. I had to provide everything for myself so I had to think about what things I wanted to have and what things were worth the trouble of acquiring and maintaining and what things were not. Then when I moved here, of course, There was no house, there was no electricity and so all of those things became things that I had to make a conscious decision to provide and spend money and effort on or not. I don’t know this, but I suppose, by reading things directed to preppers and things written by people who consider themselves preppers, a lot of energy… It looks as though a lot of preppers approach it because they have a lifestyle that they feel is potentially threatened and they want to prepare to preserve it. So, they… the first thing a lot of people think about is oh, gotta have a generator. But, if you want to have electricity and all of the doo-dads that electricity provides for you, yes. But, that’s to me that’s, to me that’s backwards, to say that I have all of these things now, how do I maintain them? I think the way to think, again, for me, what you might call prepping is really just a matter of a, mostly just a matter of a conscious lifestyle. I know what I want to have around me, I know what’s worth the effort to provide and what’s not worth the effort to provide. And the things that I provide in my life I do because they have value to me that exceeds their cost. I don’t start with a package that I feel like I have to be able to preserve regardless of what happens. And then I’m also just interested, almost as a hobby, I’m interested in where things come from and how things are made. So, even if I were not concerned with providing for myself and my family, I would like to know how to make things or where they come from, or how to find them just because I like to know. It’s just interesting. I don’t think that most preppers start from the same direction that I’ve started from, because you read about people saying “oh, wow, ya know, now I’ve gotta prep to survive the coming whatever, so, golly, now I gotta learn how to fix my own truck, and I gotta learn how to cook, and I’ve gotta learn how to can stuff, and I gotta learn how to whatever, make a fire. I wanted to learn all those things just because I wanted to know them. It was interesting to me to know how things work. That’s why it’s kind of funny to think of myself as a “prepper,” because I just don’t like to rely on other people or systems beyond my control or, I don’t like to be held hostage for money and I like to know how to do stuff. So, if you wanted to interview a typical prepper, I suspect you’re barking up the wrong tree.

AJL: I can’t think of anything else to ask you. Thank you for the interview.

Leyzorek: You’re welcome.

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